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#1 2022-12-04 17:16:33

Andrew_Cooper
Member
Registered: 2022-12-03
Posts: 15

V30 Tiller to Rudder Connection

Hi Everyone - new member here and enjoying the access to the technical forums, appreciating the many questions already answered and other members experiences. Much appreciate this access. If new members may be so bold as to post to the forum on their first week of membership...!

I have a question to other V30 owners on the tiller to rudder connection - and this follows on from php?826 (2021) which touched on a similar theme in relation to tiller linkage corrosion.

I believe my boat has been modified by a previous owner, perhaps in response to the corrosion issue. The tiller is in the standard position at the raised rear edge of the cockpit. A new heavy duty tiller/rudder linkage appears to have been installed to connect from rudder stock to tiller stock.

This heavy duty linkage has created a problem with tiller travel. The tiller travels full lock pushed to s'board (almost 90deg from centre) but only part way when pushed to port (~60-70 deg). The linkage has ball joints but these appear to bind up before the tiller reaches full extension - possibly because the two perpendicular arms are at different elevations.

I believe this boat is like all other V30 in that there is a post coming up from the rudder, a separate vertical post down from the tiller and this has not been modified. Also as described in php?826 there is a perpendicular arm on each post and these look new also so may not be the original size or in the original position. Also the heavy duty linkage between them described above is new. Also there is evidence of some rough cutting of the lazarette bulkhead to make room for the new linkage suggesting some home modifications.

My question to another V30 owner is how the original V30 linkage is installed, in particular

- are the perpendicular arms from rudder post and tiller post at the same relative height ? (mine aren't)
-  is the linkage between them a single straight bar (mine is) or something different? (like shaped profile or more than one moving piece)
- does the connecting bar have ball joints?

The hope is if i could better understand what was the original design concept then could perhaps know better how to fix it to have full travel in both directions.

Please help if you can - thanks in advance for taking the time.

Andrew

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#2 2022-12-06 09:58:43

Simon_Dewing
Member
From: Torquay / Texas
Registered: 2022-08-04
Posts: 63

Re: V30 Tiller to Rudder Connection

Can't comment directly as my 30 is wheel steered but it looks like the tiller system may be very similar to the wheel system with it's link rod pointing aft instead of forward.

The rudder shaft is raked and projects up through a gland glassed into the hull.

There is a short tiller which clamps to the rudder shaft and has a projecting stud at the outer end. This points to starboard when the rudder is central and moves fore and aft as the rudder moves

The wheel shaft has a similar short lever arm with projecting stud and sits just beneath the cockpit floor.

A short straight rod with a rose joint at each end links the two and allows for length and alignment adjustment.

The rake of the rudder shaft prevents the two moving in the same plane so the rose joints allow full movement of the two arms in slightly different planes.

I will try and dig out a couple of pictures to illustrate over the next day or two.

The cut out in the lazerette bulkhead is likely needed for clearance of the tiller lever on the tiller shaft.
Cut outs in hidden bulkheads on mine were all rather crudly made during build and I tidied them up considrably during her rebuild.

Hope the above helps

Simon

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#3 2022-12-08 10:22:42

Andrew_Cooper
Member
Registered: 2022-12-03
Posts: 15

Re: V30 Tiller to Rudder Connection

Hi Simon - thanks for taking the time. All is understood - essentially we have a similar arrangement, except yours runs forward to wheel drive and mine runs sternward to tiller connect.

Noted also the raked rudder shaft and the vertical tiller shaft- and this rotational plane difference is the reason for the rose fittings. However on my boat it appears that the rose fitting is jamming to stop the full rotation of tiller to port side.

You mention an adjustable linkage - I don't have that at all. The fitting that is installed is all fixed length bars with clamp connections and with the rose joints at each end of the interconnecting piece.

Thus am wondering if on a standard V30 tiller installation -

a) tiller connect linkage has any built in adjustments?
b) (in addition to different rotational plane) the elevation difference, if any, between the two short tiller stubs
c) if the connecting bar is shaped in any way. i.e. a dogleg or yuloh profile
d) are rose connectors directional. i.e. does it make any difference if installed upside down?

Yes, please to photo if convenient, especially of the adjusting connection. I should send photo also as that may make clearer what is the issue. & will do when I have figured the upload process.

Once again thanks for taking the time, much appreciated - best wishes
Andrew

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#4 2022-12-09 08:57:25

Simon_Dewing
Member
From: Torquay / Texas
Registered: 2022-08-04
Posts: 63

Re: V30 Tiller to Rudder Connection

Andrew,

The arm on the rudder and on the wheel shaft are at slightly different elevations.
Can't find too many photos at the moment and I am in Uk with boat over in US. Will be a couple of months before I can get to it.
I have a couple showing the rudder stock with rudder removed and the wheel pedestal just replaced and will try to upload them.
The link is a rod with rose joints screwed on each end left and right hand threds (like the steering rod on a car). It is straight with misalignment taken up by the swivel in the rose joints. (do a google search they are heavily used in motorsport suspension sysyems)
I'd be surprised if they are binding due to lack of articulation but they may be corroded or require lubrication.
Angles would have to be extreme for this to happen.
They are so far as I am aware symetrical so can be installed either way up

Rgds

Simon

1670572737_sabbatical_refit_271.jpg

1670572907_sabbatical_refit_38.jpg

Last edited by Simon_Dewing (2022-12-09 09:06:59)

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#5 2022-12-19 17:05:06

Andrew_Cooper
Member
Registered: 2022-12-03
Posts: 15

Re: V30 Tiller to Rudder Connection

1671465815_v30_-_tiller_issue._tiller_fully_extended_500kb.jpg

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#6 2022-12-19 17:06:34

Andrew_Cooper
Member
Registered: 2022-12-03
Posts: 15

Re: V30 Tiller to Rudder Connection

1671465569_v30_-_tiller_issue._aft_tiller_rudder_connection_500kb.jpg

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#7 2022-12-19 17:10:12

Andrew_Cooper
Member
Registered: 2022-12-03
Posts: 15

Re: V30 Tiller to Rudder Connection

1671466173_v30_-_tiller_issue._forward_tiller_rudder_connection_500kb.jpg

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#8 2022-12-19 17:23:36

Andrew_Cooper
Member
Registered: 2022-12-03
Posts: 15

Re: V30 Tiller to Rudder Connection

Hi Simon - thanks and all noted. useful intel. I made it to the boat this week and took the following three photo to illustrate the problem. (Haven't quite got the hand of the upload process yet, no doubt these images could have been embedded in this post). The three photos show both ends of the tiller rudder connection with the tiller fully extended to port side -

1) Tiller aft connection
2) Tiller forward connection
3) Tiller position, fully extended to port side (or s/board turn)

Based on your comments & photos also - I think the connection is probably all standard except for the new aft tiller bracket. The new bracket is likely the issue as i observe the rose joint and connection jamming at this bracket. I can loosen the nut to improve travel slightly and loosen it fully and the connecting rod will hit the lazarette bulkhead. Thus it seems problem is either the shape/size of the new bracket, its elevation or its orientation.

For possible solutions i can try changing the elevation of the bracket, grinding the profile to make the shape thinner, or turning it fully upside down to change orientation. Will try all of these at the next opportunity in the New Year.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond - best wishes

Andrew

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#9 2022-12-20 09:37:42

Simon_Dewing
Member
From: Torquay / Texas
Registered: 2022-08-04
Posts: 63

Re: V30 Tiller to Rudder Connection

Based on your description and pictures it would seem a small change in the elevation of the tiller shaft bracket would stop the rose joint binding and restricting the movement.

Hope that works for you

Rgds

Simon

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