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#1 2022-06-07 21:35:24

Andrew_Gleadle
Member
Registered: 2014-09-23
Posts: 56

Wind vane steering

Hi All

I would be interested to hear other owners experience with wind vane steering and how you have them set up.

I have a Pacific Light Wind vane fitted to my Frances 26, Panache. Over the past few years I have worked on improving its steering performance but it is still not 100% reliable.

What I have found to date is:
•    The windvane was prone to sticking if there was any friction in the linkage between the wind vane and the pendulum. This has been improved by adding washers and longer bolts to the bottom of the main push rod to reduce friction and ensuring the top push rod nuts have a level of play
•    The angle of the pendulum rudder appears to be speed dependant. Wrong angle in light winds and it overrides the windvane, wrong angle in stronger winds and it has insufficient drive
•    Moved the tiller fitting to be 80cm along a 125cm tiller, measured from the rudder body
•    Changed routing of lines to match the move of the tiller fitting
•    Tested the pendulum travel / force adjusting ring in multiple setting in different setups in similar wind conditions

The lines and tiller position is shown below.

1654633079_20220601_161948.jpg

I have played extensively with sail trim to optimise performance which has resulted in improvements but not 100% reliablility to maitain a course on all points of sail..

I look forward to any feedback and your experiences.

Regards
Andy

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#2 2022-06-08 01:09:04

Bill_Robinson
Member
From: Langkawi, Malaysia
Registered: 2021-06-14
Posts: 110

Re: Wind vane steering

Hi Andy,
I have fitted a Navik wind vane on Inyoni, my Frances 26. Reasons for this choice, besides price, were first it’s light weight, and the feature of the “flettner”, or trim tab on the servo blade. This unique feature greatly reduces the forces needed. I have friends who have had a Navik on their 32 footer for over 30 years of full time cruising. It is still going strong and they have just arrived in the Med from Malaysia.

Due to my Beta 16 engine problems, I have not really tested the Navik yet. However the engine is now finally repaired, so soon, I will be test sailing the system. Static tests at the dock, have been very encouraging, and the system works with very low wind wind speeds. I have not yet installed the attachment points for the steering lines on the tiller, I will wait until I have tested first, but I have also been considering an adjustable system, that I can move along the tiller as needed.

I did a lot of experiments before I was satisfied with the Beaufort ASMER wind vane system on my Ebbtide 36. I tried different vanes for strong or lighter winds, and placement of steering lines. Eventually I settled on the position of the steering lines, and two sizes for the air vane, a larger one for winds up to about 25 kn, and a much smaller plywood one for stronger winds.

Regards,
Bill Robinson.

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#3 2022-06-08 21:32:45

Jonathan_Hopper
Member
Registered: 2004-03-23
Posts: 161

Re: Wind vane steering

Andy -

The only direct observation from using a Sea Feather is that the chain grip on mine is 65cm from the rudder stock, as measured along the top of the tiller. Similar routing of lines.

I have had good results from it, but did have a friction / play issue in the body of it which had to be resolved by it's maker.

Although they are different units, their principles are the same - but i have been puzzling over

'•    The angle of the pendulum rudder appears to be speed dependant. Wrong angle in light winds and it overrides the windvane, wrong angle in stronger winds and it has insufficient drive'

The leg should be set in line with the rudder when sailing, and should only deviate from that line when the unit is getting the heading back on track - or have I misunderstood?   The Pacific Light has 2 positions for the vane, which the Sea Feather doesn't, and I do find that light winds are a bit of a problem sometimes.   I fashioned a larger ply vane which helps (or put some weight onto the vane eg pegs and something or a plastic bag I am told), though in a coastal environment I usually end up with iron topsail in those conditions instead - but at all times you are looking for an upright vane, and an in-line leg.

Having said that I do find that in wind that is quite variable in speed does need rather more attention.   Staysail really helps with balance when going upwind, but Sea Feather also does a good job downwind.

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#4 2022-06-12 19:19:26

Andrew_Gleadle
Member
Registered: 2014-09-23
Posts: 56

Re: Wind vane steering

Hi Bill and Jonathan

Thank you for your replies.

Bill, I'll have a look at how the Navik works with the trim tabs to understand if they could benefit and be fitted to my setup.

Jonathan, the pendulum rudder is in line with the boat rudder but on the Pacific wind vanes the fore and aft angle can be changed as it has a central bolt, shown below.

1655057757_rudder.jpg

The extract from the manual is:
The pendulum rudder blade must be angled down and aft exactly in line with the
rudder shaft, otherwise the balance will be off.
•    Adjusting the rudder blade aft reduces the force generated (by reducing the
balance proportion).
•    Adjusting the rudder blade forward increases the balance proportion excessively,
with the result that the rudder controls the windvane instead of the other way
around.

I’m still trying to find the optimum position of the rudder but it appears to be sensitive to wind strength and possibly boat speed. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the manuals instructions

The Sea Feather pendulum rudder looks to be straight, in line with the pendulum shaft with no aft angle. Is this the case?

I think more testing is needed this season.

Regards
Andy

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#5 2022-06-13 16:59:07

Ken_Davidson
Resigned
Registered: 2020-07-27
Posts: 12

Re: Wind vane steering

Hi guys. I am looking around at my options for a windvane for my V800 and have almost decided on a Neptune, partly due cost but mainly weight. Also, I know someone who has a Neptune on their folk boat who thinks it’s good. I almost ordered a while ago but covid beat me.

Andy. I considered a wind pilot light but the sales blurb suggests a wind pilot due the displacement. Have you had any issues linked to being overpowered or are they being over cautious.

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#6 2022-06-13 22:35:30

Jonathan_Hopper
Member
Registered: 2004-03-23
Posts: 161

Re: Wind vane steering

Andy - interesting - didn't know it had facility!   Let me know how you get on.    Peter (Windpilot) is very supportive, and it may be worth an email.   There is also an interesting booklet on their website which may be of interest, but it is a while since I dipped into it so not sure if it covers leg angle.   Indeed, the Sea Feather is vertical.  Perhaps I am missing out on something?!

Ken - Pacific Light will be fine for 800.  Again, an email to Peter will confirm I am sure.

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#7 2022-08-13 13:07:18

Jack_van_Son
Member
From: Haaren Netherlands
Registered: 2022-07-20
Posts: 2

Re: Wind vane steering

Hi,
I bought my V26 3 months ago. Her name is Sepia and she lies in Arnemuiden in the Netherlands. I want to install a windvane system in the future. I am thinking of the pacific system. Has anyone pictures or information about how to make and install a proper supporting system at her stern?

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#8 2022-08-14 09:44:33

Jonathan_Hopper
Member
Registered: 2004-03-23
Posts: 161

Re: Wind vane steering

Do you mean a Pacific Light?   If so, message me with your email address and I can send you drawing.

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#9 2022-08-14 21:19:28

Jack_van_Son
Member
From: Haaren Netherlands
Registered: 2022-07-20
Posts: 2

Re: Wind vane steering

That’s nice Jonathan! I don’t know if the supporting system for a pacific light is the same as for the ‘normal’ pacific. The V26 is somewhat in between Peter Foerthmann told me. For size the pacific light, but for the weight the pacific.
I’ll send you my email adress.

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#10 2022-08-17 22:21:55

Andrew_Gleadle
Member
Registered: 2014-09-23
Posts: 56

Re: Wind vane steering

Hi Jack Van Son

Please find the following photos of the mounts for the Pacific Light fitted to Panache. This was all fitted by a previous owner and appears to be fairly sturdy.
1660771151_20220815_181224.jpg

1660771180_20220815_182744.jpg

1660771196_20220815_182842.jpg

1660771216_20220815_182935.jpg

1660771232_20220815_182957.jpg

I hope they may be of use.

Regards
And

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#11 2022-08-18 07:48:36

Bill_Robinson
Member
From: Langkawi, Malaysia
Registered: 2021-06-14
Posts: 110

Re: Wind vane steering

Could you show how you attach the steering lines to the tiller please? I am still experimenting with various ideas myself. Thanks.

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#12 2022-08-21 22:45:06

Andrew_Gleadle
Member
Registered: 2014-09-23
Posts: 56

Re: Wind vane steering

Hi Bill

You should be able to see my steering line routing in the first photo I posted in this question. They come from the windvane to a block lashed to the second vertical (nearest the bow) of the pushpit then back to a block fixed to the first vertical (nearest to stern) of the pushpit then across to the tiller.

I changed to this layout in the last couple of years as the original fixing on the tiller wasn't 65% of the way along the tiller as recommended in the manual and it was part of my attempts to get it to work effectively. This setup gives a tiller fixing which is 65% along the tiller, provides a smoother arc of the tiller and, based on Panache’s pushpit layout, didn't require any modifications or additional metalwork. The ring on the pendulum arm is approximately halfway but this is still being tuned.

I have removed the two shackles from the chain and tied the steering line directly to the chain. I found the shackles prohibited the full travel of the tiller when combined with the narrow stern of the Frances 26.

I'm still working on getting the performance of the Pacific Light consistent in 15kn+ of wind. Below this it appears to be ok on most points of sail providing you have the sails well trimmed. I hope this helps.

It would be interesting to know the differences between the Pacific Light and Pacific wind vanes.

Andy

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#13 2022-08-21 23:43:50

Bill_Robinson
Member
From: Langkawi, Malaysia
Registered: 2021-06-14
Posts: 110

Re: Wind vane steering

Hi Andy,
Thanks for your reply. I assume you have some sort of a hook under the tiller for the chain? The tiller on a Frances is not very strong, so I do not want to drill holes through it. I am looking for ideas that will allow me to easily move the steering line attachment point along the tiller.
On my Ebbtide, I have a chain hook under the tiller for the steering lines of the Beaufort Asher wind vane. This wind vane has many easy adjustment points, such as the counter weight, the stroke of the vertical operating rod, so I can easily fine tune it for various conditions. The Navik on my Frances, has no such options, so I want to be able to move the tiller line attachment point along the tiller, and also bias it either to Port or Starboard.
Regards, Bill.

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#14 2022-08-30 22:13:02

Andrew_Gleadle
Member
Registered: 2014-09-23
Posts: 56

Re: Wind vane steering

Hi Bill
Yes, there is a chain. I have the chain lock fitted to the top of the tiller at the distance recommended in the manual for the Pacific Light. It can be seen in the first I posted in this thread.
Regards
Andy

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#15 2022-09-01 00:35:49

Bill_Robinson
Member
From: Langkawi, Malaysia
Registered: 2021-06-14
Posts: 110

Re: Wind vane steering

Hi Andrew,
Thanks for the information, initially I had a similar system with the Aries on my Ebbtide 36. Two problems prompted a change. The first was that the chain ruined the varnish finish on the tiller, and the second was potentially more serious, the chain inadvertently engaged while I was docking! This prompted me to move the chain hook to the underside of the tiller, which solved both issues.
On Inyoni, my Frances 26 with the Navik unit, I am designing a system using Vee type jamming cleats on either side of the tiller, that can be moved along the tiller, to suit conditions.
Regards,
Bill.

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#16 2022-09-05 10:25:32

Colin_Reid
Member
From: Gloucestershire
Registered: 2003-11-02
Posts: 37

Re: Wind vane steering

Ken_Davidson wrote:

Hi guys. I am looking around at my options for a windvane for my V800 and have almost decided on a Neptune, partly due cost but mainly weight. Also, I know someone who has a Neptune on their folk boat who thinks it’s good. I almost ordered a while ago but covid beat me.

Andy. I considered a wind pilot light but the sales blurb suggests a wind pilot due the displacement. Have you had any issues linked to being overpowered or are they being over cautious.

I have had a Neptune on Tui (V30) for years. Its steered for thousands of miles and works very well. One of the best bits of kit I ever fitted. Better in stronger winds than light, and I usually switch to an autohelm for downwind. But I'd recommend it. I can take some pics of the setup when next on board late September if of interest.

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#17 2022-09-05 10:44:47

Colin_Reid
Member
From: Gloucestershire
Registered: 2003-11-02
Posts: 37

Re: Wind vane steering

1662371050_img_20220408_175536.jpg This is the Neptune

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