#1 2017-08-05 17:13:27

John_Willis
Member
From: Guernsey
Registered: 2017-04-07
Posts: 32
Website

V34/Frances 34 Hull/Deck Joint Leaks

Hello,

I have leaks from the hull deck joint both sides in the area of the forecabin.  My boat is a Frances 34 Pilothouse with the standard teak toe rail.

It doesn't manifest itself until either the decks are awash or I am shipping water over the bows and I am pretty certain it isn't coming from the chain locker or bowsprit. 

Applying silicone in under the toe rail both sides frankly isn't the solution, so I suppose the only real solution is toe rail off and reseal/fibreglass etc.

I suspect many V34s suffer this way so I am hoping someone has experience of a solution.  Any advice appreciated.

Best wishes


John Willis
F34PH Pippin

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#2 2017-08-09 05:46:56

Jon_Spencer
Administrator
Registered: 2003-11-23
Posts: 141

Re: V34/Frances 34 Hull/Deck Joint Leaks

John,
I read your note after a particularly demanding bash through the "Channel Chop" around Dungeness recently.  We have a similar problem on ALBERTINE our Frances 34.  I like you have tried all the obvious causes including a new bowsprit and re-seating the pulpit.  The problem does not occur in any amount of rain or hose washing but only with "green water" over the bow.  I believe the water is forced into the chain locker through the windlass and forms a light spray which comes into to contact with the outer glass fibre skin, as there is no lining in the chain locker.  The boat motion then moves the water film aft and into the area where the forepeak lamination of wood and laminate comes into contact with the outer glass fibre. The water then finds its way down behind the lamination and manifests itself under the forepeak mattresses.   We have tried just about everything to solve the problem but to date no solution has been found other that to prop up the mattresses and place a towel to absorb the dampness.  Keeping a boat dry in heavy weather is one of the oldest problems facing us all.  We are now back in the Hamble and all is dry and shipshape and will remain so until our next session in very heavy weather. 
Jon
ALBERTINE

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#3 2017-08-10 11:39:46

John_Willis
Member
From: Guernsey
Registered: 2017-04-07
Posts: 32
Website

Re: V34/Frances 34 Hull/Deck Joint Leaks

Hello Jon,

that is the theory I adopted as principal cause.  I have used an endoscope to check what I can see of the hull deck joint and it all looks fine, reinforcing your theory.

To monitor it, I have taken off the trim panel on starboard side above the berth shelf and will check for ingress after green stuff over the bows.

In the meantime, I have lined the berths with thick plastic sheet to protect mattresses.  Dinghy paddles beneath mattresses help keep them clear too.

I'll keep you posted.

Goss sends his regards.

JMW

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#4 2017-08-18 15:29:19

David_Macgregor
Member
Registered: 1998-01-29
Posts: 13

Re: V34/Frances 34 Hull/Deck Joint Leaks

Our boat is a 30 but this problem seems common to all Victorias or perhaps all boats of a similar vintage. We have had leaks for years running down the inside of the hull - you know where the water ends up but not where it comes in. Never more than than a few drops but nonetheless annoying.

Last year we had the teak toe rail replaced (at considerable expense). Once removed it was clear that water had been sitting under the toe rail but still not obvious how  it was getting inside the hull. The original bedding material was hard and brittle. There were tiny hairline cracks around some of the screw fittings. There were no signs that the hull/deck joint had moved but the sealant between the two looked doubtful.

All now back together and looking very smart and so far no leaks.

David

Victoria Rose

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#5 2018-12-12 23:03:22

Don_Smith
Member
From: Chester
Registered: 2017-06-25
Posts: 25

Re: V34/Frances 34 Hull/Deck Joint Leaks

I too have doubts about the integrety of the hull-deck joint in our V34 and only when we've been sailing hard on the wind. No amount of hose work duplicates it. Net result,  salt water on the forward bunks, wet under the toe rail and drips from the leading edge of the trim below and forward of the front portlight.

We've had leaks from elsewhere, too. The deck drains leaked badly but they are sorted though getting to the starboard drain was tricky as it's panelled in. We rebedded all the portlights recently and don't seem to have admitted any fresh water from recent heavy rains finding it's way down to the edge of the cabin sole. It may be too early to be sure, but I'm not surprised given the condition of the sealant when we took them out for inspection. Another problem was delamination between the coachroof and the cabin lining which we sealed before reassembly. Any water that got past the sealant could get into the boat unseen and appear where gravity and tracking allowed.

Don
Triptych
Conwy

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#6 2019-03-06 08:52:57

John_Willis
Member
From: Guernsey
Registered: 2017-04-07
Posts: 32
Website

Re: V34/Frances 34 Hull/Deck Joint Leaks

Further to my initial question, I decided after much faffing and cogitating that it was the hull deck joint after all.  A recent ramming by a motorboat destroyed 2.5m of toe rail, which allowed me to examine carefully the hull deck joint.  I also noticed that towards the bows, the gap between the underside of the teak toe rail and hull side was larger du to hull curvature, a perfect cavity for water to get in.

I decided to seal it properly, so used my old Leatherman knife to dig out all the old sealant, which seemed to be a rather dried out rubber mixture.  Once I had done that I brushed in the appropriate Sikafelx primer.  I then applied tape to prevent the Sikafelx running onto the hull side and teak.  When the primer had cured, I squeezed Sikaflex 290DC up under the teak toe rail and into the join, using a latex gloved finger, dipped in white spirit, to compress the Sikaflex hard up into the gap.

I have only managed to test it driving up and back through the Swinge off Alderney recently, a good place as you almost always get green stuff over the deck.  Not a drop appeared.  I shall test it further during the summer, but initial indications are that it is a lot better, if not leak free.

If anyone would like further information/pictures feel free to email me at jmwillis290@gmail.com

John Willis
Frances34PH Pippin

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#7 2019-03-14 23:00:05

Don_Smith
Member
From: Chester
Registered: 2017-06-25
Posts: 25

Re: V34/Frances 34 Hull/Deck Joint Leaks

John,
I'm on the same trail. I took down the top three slats on each side of the forepeak to investigate longstanding leaks, dating from before my ownership. I had to wait for the right weather conditions but sure enough there was water in under the toerail. I raked out the outboard join between toerail and deck:hull joint and refilled that. The inboard filling is well past it's sell by date like yours and will get the same treatment as soon as the rain stops. If the toerail ever needs replacing I'll be having the new pieces well bedded.
Don

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#8 2019-03-15 10:17:45

John_Willis
Member
From: Guernsey
Registered: 2017-04-07
Posts: 32
Website

Re: V34/Frances 34 Hull/Deck Joint Leaks

Morning Don,

I had thin white faced ply panels above the shelves, so removed those but of course had to cut them in the process.  I could see exactly where the leaks were coming from - a combination of hull/deck joint and a little from fastenings.  I replaced the ply panels with American Cherry planks, with LED strip lighting.  I can email pictures if you require them.

I would be interested in knowing more of your repairs and how things work out. 

I'll post a further update here once I have tested the newly sealed hull/deck joint properly.

Best wishes

JMW

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#9 2019-03-17 13:11:27

Jonathan_Hopper
Member
Registered: 2004-03-23
Posts: 91

Re: V34/Frances 34 Hull/Deck Joint Leaks

Perhaps different on the F26, but have you considered putting epoxy putty up from the inside along the join?    Much of the joint is glassed over on the F26 so the seal is not a concern, but the section which is exposed could also perhaps be sealed from the inside.   Epoxy putty can just about be handled on the tips of your fingers when poking up difficult to get places.

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#10 2019-03-18 09:25:30

John_Willis
Member
From: Guernsey
Registered: 2017-04-07
Posts: 32
Website

Re: V34/Frances 34 Hull/Deck Joint Leaks

I didn't but it sounds a sound plan, one I'll keep in mind.  Thanks Jonathon

JMW

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#11 2019-03-24 23:43:00

Don_Smith
Member
From: Chester
Registered: 2017-06-25
Posts: 25

Re: V34/Frances 34 Hull/Deck Joint Leaks

John
I took a close look at the inboard side of the toerail at shoelace height and found the bedding under the teak capping was crumbled and well past its sell by date. I raked out a small area to investigate and then injected about 1ml of neat yellow food dye into the hole I'd made and waited for the rain. Sure enough, yellow dye appeared in the forepeak cabinet.

This weekend I raked out the bedding under the capping on the starboard side from bow to about the forward bulkhead and forced in a bead of white Sikaflex which I smoothed over and forced into the holes. It hasn't rained yet but I'll be out with a hose next time and put the Sikeflex to the test before putting a final bead in place.

Quite which bits of the hull:deck joint (H:D) are at fault I can't say but the only solution seems to be to deny water access under the capping. Rebuilding the H:D doesn't bear thinking about. Equally, I don't have much confidence in sealing from underneath with epoxy putty as access is not exactly easy.

Never give up.

Don

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#12 2019-03-28 09:35:36

John_Willis
Member
From: Guernsey
Registered: 2017-04-07
Posts: 32
Website

Re: V34/Frances 34 Hull/Deck Joint Leaks

Don,

hopefully it looks like we have found both the cause and hopefully solution.

I'll monitor mine and report back.

Happy sailing!

JMW

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#13 2019-04-14 18:34:56

John_Willis
Member
From: Guernsey
Registered: 2017-04-07
Posts: 32
Website

Re: V34/Frances 34 Hull/Deck Joint Leaks

Hello again folks,

I now really do think that resealing those forward areas with Sikafles 290DC  has stopped those pesky fore cabin leaks.   True I haven't yet ploughed into a gale since resealing the joints, but a trip up and down the Swinge and this weekend a return trip to Jersey have made me optimistic.  Nothing too drastic, no more than 19 knots of ESE, but confused seas and plenty up onto the bows.

So, I shall be re-installing those fore cabin mattresses, which will greatly please my wife. 

JMW

PS  my last words on this subject on this forum, unless ……...

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